Talk:Gracie

From Animal Crossing City

Gracie Grace info: http://youtube.com/user/accityfolk http://youtube.com/watch?v=YZW1WosMHFA MozosGotMojo 17:58, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gender

A user posted the link to here [1] for validation of the Male Gender. — Morder 21:59, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Nintendo can make mistakes too, y'know.

Possible, but in the past (Birdo and Vivian from the Mario series), Nintendo of America has changed the Japanese version of a game's cross-dressing/transexual/etc. male characters into female characters for the American release. Stumpers 03:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, with Birdo it was the other way around. In the Japanese game Birdo is a female character called Katherine, the male cross dressing stuff was put in by Nintendo USA (with the manual saying something along the lines of "He sometimes wishes he could be a girl"). On the matter at hand though, it seems quite obvious that from the horses mouth, Grace is a guy (which actually makes more sense, if you consider the stereotype of gay fashion designers).

First off, Vivian, contrary to popular belief, was gender-ambiguous, not male. Second, Nintendo's employees are only human. They can in fact make mistakes on their products or sites. Let's keep in mind that the same site claims Blanca's a guy too, so it could very well be an error. Basically, until a Nintendo representative not working as a writer for Nintendo Power {I say this because they've been known to make ALOT of stuff up} comes out and says "Gracie's a flaming gay guy in Japan", the matter most certainly hasn't been settled.

Additionally, her voice in the first game proves nothing--if that's the case, Katrina's secretly male too.

After having to correct gender confusion on the article, I did some research. Err herr, did anyone else try and use Google Translate with the info on that?

"GUREISHIGURESU" (GracieGrace?) owner. Store items are all designed by him. Oh, I'll tell, "he" is

"Oh, I'll tell, he is", would imply "I'll tell you, it is a he". Not a mistake, apparently. Should this be fixed? By the way, sorry Aximill...  :S Jake 21:32, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

No harm JakeyBoy01. I know my research. Maybe new here, but all those articles I've been cleaning up needed it. I was a bit unsure about the gender of Gracie till today. Once I can get a photo, I'll post it on the page to help others. --Aximill

It must be a very recent change to the character then. Of course, Nintendo's been pulling alot of idiotic retcons lately, so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised.

And here is that link I promised - http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/ruuj/character/town_worker.html#cat-navi01. So least in Japan Gracie is a male. Likely over time Nintendo will make Gracie a male for the American audience. Anyone care to change the photo of Gracie on the main page to use the one in the link? --Aximill 22:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Dude... They changed Birdo from a tranny and Vivian from a gender-ambiguous character into girls because of censorship laws for children's games. What makes you think they'll suddenly decide their gay newly-male Gracie should also be a gay man in America all of a sudden?

Firstly, just because he's into fashion doesn't actually make him gay, so no rules against that. Secondly, besides lazy characters being attracted to him, there is no evidence that he is currently supposed to be male. I personally think Nintendo intended it to be male, but the English translation made it appear as a female accidentally. It will most likely stay as a female in the West, but if there are any fans who do interviews, ask someone at Nintendo (Japan or otherwise) what happened. I saw leave the page referring to 'her' for now, until we have some solid prove of Western sex. Jake 17:53, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I side with Jake on this. While Japan is free to do their thing, this wiki (I would assume) is primarly viewed by American audiences and Gracie should be "pre-op" for the time being. I will be wathcing this page though to make sure there are no homophobic or transphobic remarks made about Gracie due to the infantile nature of too many gamers out there. Oh, and by the way, Saharah, is a male in the Japanese version as well. Guess I have another critter to watch out for. --Aximill 18:55, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

"Firstly, just because he's into fashion doesn't actually make him gay"

I think it's very obvious that they're suddenly trying to play up the old "gay fashion designer" stereotype, as someone mentioned before.

"Secondly, besides lazy characters being attracted to him, there is no evidence that he is currently supposed to be male."

That's not proof of her being a guy.

"Oh, and by the way, Saharah, is a male in the Japanese version as well. Guess I have another critter to watch out for."

Now, that one likely is a mistake.

Okay, guys - here's how I would deal with it: because we are an English-language Wiki, we should cater to English-speaking audiences. What that means, in my opinion, is that we should use female pronouns to refer to the character, but we shouldn't hide the history of the character or his/her existence as male in Japan. What does everyone think? Stumpers 20:36, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, that's the thing--there is no evidence of the character having always been male. There's only evidence of it being so in this particular game, and the rest is speculation. But yes, since this is not Japan, the article should in fact cater to the non-Japanese readers.

Would it be OK if I add a 'Contraversy' subarticle about this, in a little while (If I don't get beatten to it)? Jake 20:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I think we should just leave Gracie a woman. We don't want to confuse younger readers over this ambiguity. In all the western editions, Gracie is referred to as a 'she', and so this should be maintained on the site. Dab 15:47, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. --YOWUZA TALK 2 ME! 16:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

As long as we, in some shape or form, say that in the Japanese version of City Folk she was referred to as male, I'm fine with it. You can prevent the confusion of younger readers by then immediately clarifying that she was female in all other games... or whatever the case may be. Stumpers 17:27, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

The controversy section seems to have been removed, with the claim that it was poorly worded. Perhaps someone could attempt a rewrite of it?

Sorry, that was me! I didn't think it was very well put, and so in the introduction, I added a small sentence on the end. I'm not sure if it's worth restoring 'controvery', though. Dab 20:56, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Y'know, I could've sworn it was decided the "male" note would be left out due to lack of evidence of this being the case in every other game.